Hello everyone,
I will not be at the AMMRL meeting today.
If this topic is raised for discussion, one other possibility we could
consider would be to revive the Bruker Users Mail (BUM) list.
I took over the BUM from Rudi for a few years, but it has since become
dormant.
If the AMMRL was made a "vendor free" zone, then we could still have the
BUM for discussions that could include the folks from Bruker.
Just a thought for consideration.
Cheers, and for those of you at the ENC, enjoy!
Bob.
On 06-Apr-16 4:42 PM, Jerry Hu wrote:
>
> Thanks, Jerry, for the summary.
>
> I think having a place for AMMRL members to discuss and evaluate the
> performance of vendors privately and anonymously is a great idea. With
> the rating of vendors out there, the life for AMMRL members and other
> NMR lab personnel will be much easier when it comes down to which
> vendors to go for services and parts.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jerry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Jerry Hu, Ph.D. *
> Technical Director Email: jghu_at_mrl.ucsb.edu <mailto:jghu_at_mrl.ucsb.edu>
>
> Project Scientist Tel:
> (805)893-7914 (office)
>
> Materials Research Lab, UCSB (805)893-7940 (lab)
> Santa Barbara, CA 93106 Fax: (805)893-7914
>
> http://www.mrl.ucsb.edu/spectroscopy-facility
>
> *From:*Hirschinger, Jerry D [mailto:jerryh56_at_purdue.edu
> <mailto:jerryh56_at_purdue.edu>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 05, 2016 12:23 PM
> *To:* AMMRL (ammrl_at_ammrl.org <mailto:ammrl_at_ammrl.org>)
> *Subject:* RE: AMMRL: Petition for the JUNTA to remove vendors - SUMMARY
>
> Hello again,
>
> I will not be there this year, so I should get this summary out there
> before ENC begins. I received five responses from other members in
> support of my petition, one informative response from AMMRL Junta,
> plus 2 other kind responses from vendors. None of the membership
> expressed opposition to the petition, and the other responses were
> cooperative and informative, which I greatly appreciate. Thank you
> Clemens, Rich, Charlie, Sameer, George, Dean, John and Arnold for your
> comments.
>
> As it turns out there have been vendors on the list all along! Those
> which are not directly members are kept informed by their
> collaborators who are members. This is not necessarily a bad thing.
> By including vendors, they have an opportunity to get first-hand
> feedback regarding their products and problems with products. They
> are also able to correct misinformation when it is passed to the list,
> as well as gage the need for new products. The general membership
> benefits by having vendors’ expert advice and experience on the list,
> even if they don’t always volunteer it.
>
> Since the vendors have tacitly been here all along, it does not seem
> so necessary to remove them from the list. They hear of the
> conversations here through collaborators anyway. The on-list private
> opinions, recommendations, and reviews of vendor performance which
> come from the membership have always borne the risk of aggravating
> vendor relations. We just didn’t necessarily know that.
>
> Since Agilent is leaving the market, vendors have been encouraged to
> step forward on the list to assist Agilent users. This has resulted
> in an increase in outright advertising, IMO. Perhaps my issue with
> the vendors would be satisfied if they just stop advertising services
> whenever they see a problem come over the list which they could make
> some money on. When we members post a problem, we are all pretty well
> aware that there are commercial services available to fix the
> problem. So, vendors please resist the urge to tell us that you have
> service available to fix our problems. WE KNOW THAT ALREADY!! If we
> were ready to hire you, we would not be asking the list for help.
>
> The main drawback I see to having vendors on the list is that frank
> and honest evaluation of their products and services is not possible
> without possibly spoiling a vendor relationship. We all appreciate
> our friends and colleagues working for the vendors, and don’t want to
> jeopardise those relationships. In my mind, it seems a matter of
> whether the primary purpose of the list is to provide connections and
> assistance, or to evaluate vendors. I’m guessing the Steering
> Committee would rightly agree with the former. We can always discuss
> vendor performance privately and post anonymous summary to the list,
> anyway. Collecting replies privately and summarizing to the list
> anonymously is a great way to handle any post here, IMO.
>
> In conclusion, I believe we can keep the list as it is with vendors
> present. It has operated so well for so many years that way. I
> would, however like the Steering Committee to formally ask the vendors
> to stop replying to our posts with messages like “We can handle that
> work.” Or “We have that part in stock.” and other advertisements
> thinly disguised as assistance. Those responses are unwelcome, IMO.
>
> I hope you all have a great ENC, if you’re going.
>
> Cheers, -Hirsch
>
> Spinlanders,
>
> I understand the reasoning behind admitting vendors into AMMRL. There
> was hope that the Agilent crisis could be alleviated with their
> knowledge. Well, I for one do not see that happening. What I do see
> is that every time an opportunity comes up, they simply hawk their
> services. Agilent themselves has a VERY helpful Spinsights forum which
> supplants any need for vendors in AMMRL to solve Agilent-related problems.
>
> In the meantime, with vendors in the list it is no longer possible to
> have ‘private’ and frank discussions among lab managers without
> possibly poisoning our valued relationships with our vendors. I am
> hereby petitioning the AMMRL ruling Junta to remove all vendors from
> AMMRL and to restore the historic policy prohibiting their membership.
>
> Sincerely, -Hirsch
>
> Jerry Hirschinger, NMR Instrumentation Specialist
>
> Purdue Interdepartmental NMR Facility
>
> 560 Oval Dr. West Lafayette, IN 47907-2084
>
> Office: Wetherill 365A
>
> Phone / Fax: (765) 494-5288 / 494-0239
>
> Cellular: (765) 427-3034
>
--
Dr. Bob Berno
Manager: McMaster NMR Facility
Department of Chemistry & Chemical Biology
McMaster University
1280 Main Street West
Hamilton, ON
L8S 4M1
(905) 525-9140 x24158 or x24686
Fax: (905) 522-2509
http://macs.mcmaster.ca
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Received on Mon Apr 11 2016 - 07:05:50 MST