(no subject)

From: leonard charles dickinson <charlie_at_telemann.pse.umass.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:06:11 -0400 (EDT)

-------------------

RICH

Here is the file of the 21 responses to my magnet move questions....for
you to put in the archives separately.

Thanks--it's a great feeling having this over with!

Charlie


> From: charlie (leonard charles dickinson)
> Message-Id: <200006221804.OAA01735_at_telemann.pse.umass.edu>
> Re: Moving Energized Magnets (Again)
> Apparently-To: <ammrl_at_wwitch.unl.edu>

Dear AMMRL Bank of Experience:

I have looked over our wondrously rich email Archives (esp.Jan 98 and found
a range of advice about moving or the madness of moving)energized magnets.
As I am pressed to move a 4.7T Oxford and it has limited but finite
usefulness I want to do this economically. My sense is that energized
Oxfords have been successfully moved: Based on Jeff Simpson's MIT experience
it seems one can simply slowly pick it up by chains/engine hoist to the three
ears on top, put it on an appropriate dolly and cautiously roll it into the
next room. Unfortunately I have a 1" step so I hope a 6' ramp with 2 degree
tilt will be tolerated. Bruker offered to rent me a dolly for
$850 but I have found a manufacturer who will make a dolly to my specs
for $55 good to 950 pounds...New Haven Moving Equipment 800-743-7237.

I would like to hear from anybody who has tried successfully or unsucessfully
to move an energized magnet recently....

Pending worries:
>Better to move with high helium to assure coil coverage even with sloshing?
>Better to move with low nitrogen to lessen the strain on the can suspension
system?
>How tolerant of tilt....if it has swung when picked up that means that
a few degees tilt would be OK..I'd like to know what people observed.
>What sized wheels on your dolly? I will have 3" so I can get through
the door, therefore, more vibrations when rolling....

I know it's risky but I'd like to save $10K.

I will post summary to archives.


Charlie Dickinson

_\_|_/__\_|_/__\_|_/__\_|_/__\_|_/__\_|_/__\_|_/_
-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-

Charlie Dickinson, PhD
NMR Director
University of Massachusetts-Amherst
Department of Polymer Science and Engineering
Amherst MA 01003 USA
charlie_at_telemann.pse.umass.edu
PHO 413-577-1428
FAX 413-545-0082

I have said that the soul is not more than the body,
And I have said that the body is not more than the soul,
And nothing, not God, is greater to one than one's self is,
And whoever walks a furlong without sympathy walks to his own funeral
      drest in his shroud ...

                -Walt Whitman, 'Song of Myself'

-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-
 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

------------------------------------------
> From: Charles Amass <camass_at_sophia.smith.edu>
> To: leonard charles dickinson <charlie>
> Subject: Re: your mail
> In-Reply-To: <200006221804.OAA01735_at_telemann.pse.umass.edu>
> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1000623085607.10738B-100000_at_sophia.smith.edu>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

dear dr. dickinson,
i would be glad to help you with this project if you like. i have done a
magnet myself at tufts but no moves. the magnex i worked on had only three
eighth inch thick rods stabilizing the bottom of the cans against the
outside dewar. one had broken in shipment by mr resources, a whole other
story. see you soon.
yours
charles amass
----------------------------
> From: Marc Stchedroff <stchedro_at_ch.unito.it>
> Subject: Re:

My first suggestion is talk to Oxford.

Then I would suggest borrowing a power pack and de/re-energise it yourself.
It really isn't hard at low field. Bruker will often lend a power pack.
Really they are not interested in doing this themselves as it is a pain and
takes precious trained engineers away from more pressing work. The old
Oxford 200's came with the charging rod and clear instructions on charge
rate and currents in each shim coil. You should also do an overfield
correction (taking the coil current ovefield) that is not in the book.
Bruker or Oxford will be able to advise on precisely how to do this.

If you must move on field. Don't move it with a lot of cryogens in it. 40%
He and not much N2 at all would be my advice. The N2 is not really needed
over a period of days except you will lose more He.

Good luck

Marc
----------------------------

> From: steren_at_famaf.unc.edu.ar


Dear Charles:

        We have moved a 300 MHz Bruker magnet one month ago
without any problem. We made it with nitrogen tanks full and almost
full helium tank. A good thing is to have a helium tank near you for
two reasons: 1) if the magnet quench, we where told by Bruker's
Engineering that you loose a lot of helium and it is better to refill it
as soon as possible to keep it cold. 2) if you are successful, you
don't know how much helium you have lost and so we refilled it once
the magnet was in the new place.

        To lift and move the magnet we design a system made of
wood. The magnet was first lift screwing four screws at the same
time (you need for guys for this!) until we were able to add the
wheels to the system. Then, you can move it and the best way is at
constant speed (the best you can!). Once in place, you lift the
system again a little bit with the screw system to take the wheels
off.

        Well, this was the method we used more or less.

        Good luck!

                With best regards.

                                        Carlos Steren

----------------------------------------------------------------
    Dr. Carlos A. Steren
    FAMAF Univ. de Cordoba
    Ciudad Universitaria
    5000 Cordoba (CBA)
    ARGENTINA

    Tel: 54-351-4334051

    FAX: 54-351-4334054

--------------------------------------
> From: Michael Strain <strain_at_mango.uoregon.edu>
> To: leonard charles dickinson <charlie>


Charlie,

When I was in grad school in New Haven we moved a 4.7T widebore
energized... twice. The most adventurous was when we moved it to another
floor via the elevator. We lifted it off of the legs onto a wooden
dolly... probably like the one that the New Haven Moving Co. is offering.
Make sure there is clearance for the vacuum valve assembly.
I presume it's a flat bottom?

Use nylon straps or non-magnetic stainless chains.
When going through doorways, which usually have steel jambs in
institutional buildings, be very carefull to keep the magnet in the exact
center. Blocks of wood, pallets, or the like could be used as spacers to
help maintain centering and to keep the magnet from shifting. I suppose
you could make a plywood box barely smaller than the doorways.

2x4's make good non magnetic pry-bars for nudging the dolly over
irregularities in the floor.


The bore ends should be sealed to prevent little magnetic particles from
entering... as well as bigger items. Of course, remove the probe, RT
shims etc.

Watch out for steel buckles on the ends of movers straps. (the buckles are
OK, just pay attention where they are)

I can't remember what we did about cryogen levels. Probably He at a
moderately high level (but not 100%) is a good idea. I would recommend
having liquid helium on hand to top it off after the move.

Let know if you have any more questions.

--Mike


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Strain strain_at_mango.uoregon.edu
Institute of Molecular Biology desk/voice-mail: 541-346-4605
  & Department of Chemistry FAX: 541-346-5891
University of Oregon, Eugene, OR 97403
-----------------------------------------------------------------------




> From: "Charles G. Fry" <fry_at_bert.chem.wisc.edu>

Charlie

Don't "slosh" the cryogens! But higher He, and lower N2 is
what we have done. I would be quite worried about tilting the
magnet. Not sure a bottom-support dolly and ramp is the best way.

We have moved a 100 MHz magnet energized through an elevator
one floor down to our undergrad lab using a tripod crane (support
from above) and it worked ok. I wouldn't get onto the elevator
with the magnet(!), but we got it there. We actually were most
worried about going through the door jams (36" wide), and we
de-energized a 200 MHz magnet that we moved similarly two floors
down because we didn't want to take it through the door jams.

Anyway, the tripod crane (or dolly) carries the magnet with
chains from above; same as used to lift a magnet off or onto
its legs, and might (I'm not sure) take the tilt out by gravity
while you go up the ramp.

The last concern (and maybe a big one) is we worked very hard
to keep all movements with the magnets very smooth; no lateral
shocks!! I would be worried again (I worry a lot about such
things :) that while going up the ramp a wheel would get stuck,
or just freeze up a bit, and either a quick stop or a hard
getting-going-again would introduce a lateral shock that might
damage the magnet. I would look into seeing if the magnet
could be hoisted straight up, and a platform pushed under it to
get it over the 1" rise, rather than a ramp. Seems a platform
that could support the weight would be fairly simple to
construct.

Good luck,
Charlie


---------------------------------------------


> From: Jeff Simpson <jsimpson_at_MIT.EDU>
> Subject: Re: magnet move

Charlie,

With regard to moving the magnet up a ramp, I would suggest moving it so
that the normal to the plane of the two He stacks is perpendicular to the
ramp gradient. That is, have the two He stacks in line as you sight up or
down the ramp. The magnet hangs from these two stacks and will be able to
handle more stress with this orientation. Oxford people told me that
magnets are less likely to quench when a large iron object approaches (and
leaves) along the plane of the stacks as opposed to perpendicular.

Good luck. When are you going to do the move? I might be able to drive out
there to help as a favor since I've done it twice myself already.

Jeff

---------------------------------------------

> lcary_at_chem.unr.edu
I had the magnet in final test and I can't recall why, but it was wanted
back in the magnet facility which was across Dana st. We simply used the
engine hoist and a chain. We did try to keep the dewar from swinging with
our hands.
        The enemy is mechanical vibration, magnet pressure and temperature
if thise are reasonable, then baring magnetic objects, you can do anything
you want to. Cheers, Lew


-----------------------------------------


> bruins_at_chem.ucdavis.edu
  Charlie, in the past year I have moved four 7 tesla systems all
energized. I built a short stainless stell extension for a standard engine
hoist and had the machine shop built me an aluminum dolly. Went up and down
elevators with abslutely no problem. Juast remember easy does it. Good
Luck Paul Bruins

-------------------------------------------

> From: Steve Philson <philson_at_nmr.chem.umn.edu>


We moved a 100 MHz magnet some years ago that way, and it seemed to
work. We didn't have any tilt, though, and the boiloff seemed to be a
bit higher after we did the move.

I helped a nearby college move a 200 from one room to the neighboring
one once. They greased the floor with something the janitors use,
made it really slick, and just slid the thing over, about 30 feet or
so. That doesn't seem a possibility here, though.

I would try it. You seem to have considered the relevant things. It
might be better if you could use a cherry picker, and move it
suspended ( _possibly_ keeping it more upright), but the shallow ramp
is probably okay. My biggest problem when considering this is getting
it through the doors while energized; if you've got tall and wide ones
it may be okay.

Good luck.

Steve
-- 
Steve Philson           philson_at_nmr.chem.umn.edu
Director NMR Lab        612-626-0297
Chemistry Dept.         University of Minnesota
--------------------------------------
> From: Chris Rithner <cdr_at_chem.colostate.edu>
> Subject: Re: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Hi Charlie,
I've successfully moved three magnets at field using a home built 
cart with pneumatic tires.  I sweat bullets through the whole 
process; we had to make four 90 degree turns through narrow 
passageways, several steel framed doorwarys, negotiate several 
ledges, ridges, and bumps, through a distance of about 50 meters on a 
single floor (no elevators involved).  The magnets survived with no 
unusual behaviors other than an elevated He boiloff for about thirty 
minutes following the adventure (due, I presume, to sloshing of the 
He).
The magnets we moved were narrow bores: an Oxford 300 built for the 
Bruker AC series (late 80's, short, fat, stubby, tall stacks), an 
Oxford 200 (vintage late 70's, tall, skinny, short stacks) and an 
Oxford 270 (early 80's, same sort of design as the 200)...the 200 and 
270 were on IBM-WP series spectrometers from that time period.  If 
memory serves me, the 300 has an exposed solenoid through part of its 
Helium cycle and the 200 and 270 are always fully immersed.
We did a Helium fill within a week of the move, we did *not* do an N2 
fill for the reasons you mentioned.
There were several points during the move when the 300 magnet (the 
most sensitive and valuable in my estimation) was tilted 
significantly (5 degrees) from the perpendicular and once when it 
grabbed a metal door from its stop and made a valiant effort to hug 
it...one of us jumped at the door, smacked the magnet in the process, 
but prevented contact.
The "cart" we used was assembled under the magnet stands as follows. 
The magnet rested directly on the axles.  The magnet was "jacked" up 
gently with three Johnson bars and a fourth person shoved wood block 
underneath the stand to get the necessary clearance.  The fully 
deflated pneumatic tires were assembled on the axle and then evenly 
pumped up to raise the magnet off the wood blocks.  It rolled 
smoothly over every obstacle including a one inch jamb.  Our biggest 
problem was turns since we had no mechanism for really steering other 
than cocking the axles left or right.  More than once we used two 
Johnson bars to ease things around in place; once the Johnson bar 
slipped from one side and that led to the "5 degree" tilt (it seemed 
like about 45 at the time).
Your arrangement should work nicely.  Varian uses an Al tripod with a 
stainless jack of the sort used to handle rigging on sail boats (Mark 
Stevenson, the magnet guru, is a sailor!).  Good luck.
cdr
*****************************
Christopher D.  Rithner
Director, Central Instrument Facility
Research Associate Professor
Chemistry Department
Colorado State University
Ft. Collins, CO   80523
970-491-6475 (or x1801 for fax)
cdr_at_chem.colostate.edu
http://www.chm.colostate.edu
-------------------------------------
> From: Jerry Hirschinger <hirsch_at_purdue.edu>
Hi Charlie,
You might save $10K and you might lose the magnet!  Which can you better
afford?  The supports within the magnet assembly are very fragile and
stress can break the vacuum seal, especially if the seals are old.  O-rings
deteriorate with time and you should consider doing a seal replacement if
the seals are near 10 years old.
You need to be concerned with what magnetic fixtures are near the magnet
during the move and how hard will they pull the magnet sideways within the
can.  For instance, if you go through a steel door frame, go through it
centered.  I definitely would NOT use an engine hoist on an energised
magnet because it's a very big chunk of steel that will be on only one side
of the magnet.  If you do use it, bring it to the magnet slowly and away
slowly.  Extend the arm of the hoist so the main mass of it is outside the
5 Gauss line, if possible.  To do this you might need volunteers to stand
on the counterweight.  Better to use an overhead hoist.  Beforehand, we
install on the ceiling an eyelet rated to lift the magnet, if possible.
The ramp should be OK as long as you go up it steadily without jerking.
The main thing is if you have to make side stresses, then do it slowly.  Do
all movements slow and steady.
Your ideas about the Cryogens are good - Helium high and Nitrogen low.
If you can, it is better to de-energise the magnet and move it cold.  This
removes all worries about steel and iron so you are only left with worries
about tilt and jerks.  In any case, I would remove the dogbone and seal the
ports with one layer aluminum foil with a pinhole in the foil.  This gives
an easy bursting disk type of escape route for the gas in case of a quench
or vacuum loss.  Keep good ventilation in the rooms for the same reason.
Removing the dogbone may also give you better door-height clearance,
allowing larger dolly wheels.
Also, have a towel handy to wipe up the sweat!!
Good luck,
Jerry
At 02:04 PM 6/22/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear AMMRL Bank of Experience:
>As I am pressed to move a 4.7T Oxford and it has limited but finite
>usefulness I want to do this economically.  My sense is that energized 
>I know it's risky but I'd like to save $10K.
>I will post summary to archives.  
>Charlie Dickinson
===+++===
Jerry Hirschinger; NMR Instrumentation Engineer
Purdue University Chem-MCMP NMR Facility
1393 Wetherill Labs, rm. 365A
West Lafayette, IN   47907-1393
Phone:  (765) 494-5288
FAX:  (765) 494-0239
email:  hirsch_at_purdue.edu
----------------------------------------
> From: "Joe L Schwartz" <jschwartz_at_Nalco.Com>
> To: charlie (leonard charles dickinson)
Hi Charlie.
When I was at the U of Wisconsin, we moved one of Craig Bradley's magnets
(Cryomagnet Systems) while it was at field.  We originally had this at 4.7 T but
later ramped it to 295 MHz 1H.  If I recall correctly, we moved this magnet when
it was at 295 MHz.  Nonetheless, the field was at least 4.7 T.  We moved it with
a steel hoist (or engine stand) and steel chains as we did not have any
nonmagnetic equivalents.  In our case, we only had to move it across a room,
maybe about 20 or 30 feet.  We just moved it with the hoist, making sure that it
did not swing wildly in the process.  We moved the hoist in slowly with chains
hanging from the hook on the end.  The chains became rather straight when they
were hung above the magnet due to the magnetic field and this was the most
noticeable interaction with the field.  We hooked them to the top of the dewar
- the magnet was similar to an Oxford magnet.  Be aware that the strongest field
(outside of the dewar) is at the bottom of the magnet as the coil is normally
near the bottom of the dewar.  Then we lifted the magnet off the floor and three
or four of us began to slowly move the whole assembly across the room.  We made
sure that the magnet did not swing into the steel motor stand.  We had no
problems.
I read that you were going to move your magnet through a doorway.  I would be
cautious if the doorway has a steel frame.  I don't think the incline is too big
of a deal - just be sure to keep the magnet from tipping.  As long as you try to
move the magnet smoothly, I don't think you'll have any problems.  Also, the
smaller magnets can be rather top-heavy when they are on their legs so you will
probably want to have one or two people stablilize the magnet while one moves
the cart, just to be sure the magnet doesn't tip over.  I don't recall if we had
our magnet topped off with helium when we moved it.  It probably would be a good
idea to have it topped off.  I don't think the nitrogen level matters much.  In
fact, it's just excess weight for the move.
Most of what I have told you is common sense that you would probably know .  I
just thought I'd let you know of our experience and that a move is not a
problem, provided that you are cautious and take your time.
I hope all goes well.
Regards,
Joe
-------------------------------------
> From: Ben Bangerter <ben.bangerter_at_yale.edu>
> er-Encoding: 7bit
Charlie,
We successfully moved an erergized WM-250 magnet last summer.  But we
are pretty well set up to do this.  We have a 2 ton aluminum tripod
(cost:~$1500, Spanco, non-magnetic, mostly), a chain hoist (magnetic,
totally), straps and rings, and we built a sturdy dolly, with 6 inch
wheels (wheels alone cost $126) and a frame of 4x6 Douglas fir beams. I
believe we filled with helium just before the move.  It was all on one
level, but over a tile floor which caused some vibration.  We had no
problems.  We also moved a non-energized 11.7 T the same distance with
this setup, and lifted an energized 11.7 T to mount TMC legs. Bruker
engineers used the gear to set up two 400 MHz systems for us last year,
too. I wish I had bought this stuff years ago, it would have saved us a
lot of grief (we now have 13 NMR magnets in the building.)  An
investment of $2500-3000 for this kind of gear makes a lot of sense for
a lab with magnets to move.
Perhaps we could help you with this move - give me a call if you are
interested in further discussions.
Ben Bangerter
203-432-3942
*************-----------------------
> >From jmiller_at_spartan.ac.brocku.ca  Fri Jun 23 10:15:33 2000
We've moved a Bruker 200 magent -- large dewar version about 20 feet 
- we slipped it onto a carpet and moved it by dragging the carpet.
-- 
Prof. Jack M. Miller,
Associate Vice-President, Research and
Dean of Graduate Studies,
Professor of Chemistry,
Brock University,
St. Catharines, Ont.,
Canada, L2S 3A1.
------------------------------------------d
> From: Bill Stevens <wstevens_at_siu.edu>
> Subject: moving magnet
> In-Reply-To: <200006221804.OAA01735_at_telemann.pse.umass.edu>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:04 PM 6/22/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>>Better to move with high helium to assure coil coverage even with sloshing?
Definitely.
>>Better to move with low nitrogen to lessen the strain on the can suspension
>system?
I'd do full nitrogen, too. Maybe this is an irrationality left to me by my
mentor Dee Huang, but I've always felt full N2 stabilized the helium can.
>>How tolerant of tilt....if it has swung when picked up that means that
>a few degees tilt would be OK..I'd like to know what people observed.
I've seen a 9T magnet swung wildly on its anti-vibration bed. When my
11.75T anti-vib table comes up, it tilts the magnet back and forth
substantially. If helium is full, should be no problem.
William C. Stevens, Ph.D.       Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Facility
Director                        Southern Illinois University
                                Carbondale, IL 62901-4405
618-453-6498 voice
618-453-6408 fax                wstevens_at_siu.edu
----------------------------------------
>; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:42:50 -0400 (EDT)
> From: pwheeler_at_isisph.com
I would suggest using nylon webbing to pick it up, rather than chains.
Depending on your faith in people, you might just be able to get four strong
folks to lift the thing up carefully.  That's what we did with our 4.7T Varian
R2D2 magnet.  Twice.  The thing still shims to spec in <1 min, and has a hold
time easily exceeding three months.
Good luck,
Patrick Wheeler
Isis Pharmaceuticals                     pwheeler_at_isisph.com
2280 Faraday Avenue                phone:  760 603 2409
Carlsbad, CA 92008                 fax:    760 929 0036
--------------------------------------
 > rtappe_at_midway.uchicago.edu
Dear Charlie,<br>
I have moved a 300 MHz Oxford magnet on field between tow rooms on the
same floor. The system was hooked to a small movable hoisting crane.
Nitrogen and He were 100%. We tried to avoid swinging and moved all heavy
metal out of the way. As pickup of small magnetic metal peaces during the
move cannot be absolutely avoided the magnet was wrapped with plastic
foil.<br>
Tilt was not a problem as moving it with the hoisting crane kept the
system in vertical position even when the crane was moved along a
slope.<br>
The system reached specs at its new position without trouble and is now
in operation for about 2 years. <br>
<br>
Good luck for your move.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Robert Tappe<br>
<br>
-------------------------------------
> federspi_at_chuma1.cas.usf.edu
Dear Charlie,
        I do not think a 2 degree tilt will be a problem but you might
consider having the back two wheels attached to a threaded rod to adjust for
tilt.  It should be simple to construct.
Ron Federspiel
Univ of So. Fla.
-------------------------------------
Dear Charlie,
    We move MANY of these at field and most of your observations/cautions
are accurate.  We usually relocate at late end of nitrogen refill schedule
to decrease weight in nitrogen can and fill helium to ~80%.  Use webbing
straps available at most hardware stores to lift magnet instead of chains.
The only concern (beyond obvious tilting,) is the size & composition of door
frames.
Many labs have steel frames and depending on size, the fringe field can pull
solenoid/helium can resulting in broken alignment struts or a quench.  This
also holds true for other large ferrous objects in path.
Don't forget to plug bore above and below, it's amazing how small pieces get
drawn in.  
Take your time and think things through - you'll do fine.  If you do have
problems, give us a call - we are very reasonable.  We also rent
non-magnetic tripods if you need.  Good luck!
Regards,
Jerry
Jerry Hatvany
Cryomag Services, Inc.
Vice President & NMR Product Manager
N.J. Corp. Office Ph. 908-281-0331
919-465-9411 Ph./FAX
888-984-8781 Toll Free Pager
919-349-7898 Cellular Telephone
Received on Mon Jul 17 2000 - 11:04:39 MST

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