Dear AMMRL,
Last week I posted a query about LCD monitors for NMR spectrometers. I
received a large number of responses, most quite enthusiastic. The
original query is given below and then the responses. After reading the
input from the members we purchased a NEC Multisync LCD1850E 18" from
www.themonitoroutlet.com (to replace a failed CRT monitor) and are quite
pleased with the result.
Jeff de Ropp
********************
Dear AMMRL,
I looked at the archives but did not see any recent discussion of people's
experience with LCD monitors for use with spectrometers.
If any one can share their experiences, degree of satisfaction, preferred
vendor/model/size of display, I would be appreciative. Please send
responses to me and if there are more than a few I will post a summary.
**************
We have the Sun 18.1" TFT monitor on our 600 console... I love it... it's
the only way to go.
Since the display is clear all the way out the to corners, the
effective/usable area is actually bigger than that of a 19in monitor.
LCD monitors are the only reasonable choice for NMR rooms.
Although they are spendy, the price is partly offset by the fact that one
doesn't need an expensive magnetic shield.
We've been very happy with a 17" 1280 x 1024 LCD monitor in the fringe
field of a 500. If you have SGI systems, configuring your video settings
is easy if you are running IRIX 6.5, much less so (and with skimpy
documentation) with earlier releases. Also, the supported video modes may
vary a lot depending on your SGI hardware. I had no trouble connecting
and configuring an 800 x 600 LCD monitor on an O2, but ultimately gave up
trying to get the same monitor to work on an Indy.
my Bruker 600 has a Silicon Graphics (1600SW) flat panel display
which was very expensive at the time. Aside from this though, I can
really recommend the use of such a display, having worked for years on
cathode ray tube monitors from different vendors and with, in some
cases, warped colors or fuzzy writing.
LCD displays are really an improvement
We use the SGI 1600SW Flat Screens. At most facilities now a days, there
are severe space limitations, so in order to save space, we have brought our
computer equipment very close to the minimum allowable distance from the
magnet. With normal monitors, we experienced major problems with screen
distortions. Since we have switched to the flat screens, we have had no
problems with the tighter space constrictions. The resolution is fabulous.
I just purchased a couple more at the end of last year for half price, so
timing may be everything. I do not know about other brands.
The LCD panel is the ideal solution for a monitor near a magnet. Even
shielded magnets can distort a CRT's convergence. A main consideration is that
you buy a large enough one with small dot size. We have two different kinds.
On the SGIs we have the 1600SW that has 0.23 mm dot pitch and the 18" SUN flat
panel on the SUN Ultra 5s with 0.28 mm dot pitch. The SGI monitor has the best
resolution but isn't made any more. The SUN monitor is capable of taking two
different inputs and has a built in A/B switch. There are other 18" displays
that are less expensive in the 18" size that will work well. Check out
www.themonitoroutlet.com for some good prices with free shipping.
We have a couple of SGI's 18" monitors. They are attached to an Indigo 2 and
Indy. We had to get a couple of monitor cables for these monitors since our
older SGIs were not compatible with the factory delivered cables. If you
need that information, I could dig up the part numbers and send it to you.
The real advantage is the obvious of no screen distortions due to magnetic
fields. We have a monitor about 5 feet from a 500 magnet with no
distortions. The color contrast is very good. The size and weight is quite
advantageous as well. I would say the one disadvantage is the loss of
resolution between a CRT monitor and LCD. However, I traded in my 20" SGI
monitor for an 18" SGI monitor and am quite happy with space savings. The
SGI monitors are expensive compared to those which I see in computer
stores-I think that they were around $1200 to $1400 each.
We have been using the 3 NEC MultiSync LCD 1810X for two years with our
Brukers(600/200) and have been quite pleased. No problems yet. They are
getting much cheaper now compared to two years ago--we paid a premium.
Four of our systems have first generation Sun 18.1" TFT LCD monitors. The
monitor supports up to 1280x1024 resolution. It performs great inside the 5
gauss line - the geometry and color of the image are distortion free. Some
users seem to like the "crispness" of the LCD monitor better than that of a
comparable Sun CRT. The monitor can switch between two video feeds (13W3
and HD15). On one system we have a Sun computer connected via a 13W3 video
cable and a Mac connected through the HD15 port. I've found that color
quality (balance, saturation, etc.) is better on a CRT than on the Sun LCD,
but this is of little concern unless you are using the monitor for high-end
color graphics (e.g. PhotoShop). We have noticed on two of the LCD monitors
that the screen image has darkened with time in some areas - appears similar
to phosphor burn-in on CRTs. Unfortunately the monitors are out of warranty
and we have not yet done an investigation to determine the cause of the
darkening.
Just a few weeks ago I noticed that Sun is now selling a newer generation of
the 18.1" TFT LCD monitor. It looks like they replaced the 13W3 connector
with a digital DVI interface. It also looks like they are maintaining
backward compatibility with 13W3 via a special converter cable. Sun's
claim is that their newer generation LCD has higher luminance, more
saturated colors, faster response time, and lower power consumption. The
current list price is about $1,800 list - OUCH.
I bought SGI brand 1600SW LCDs for my O2 workstations when they were on
close-out sale last year (only $999 for a 1600x1200 17"). We had one power
supply brick fail (covered by warranty). But other than that, I have been
very happy with these monitors. Much easier on the eyes than a CRT and
stray field is no longer an issue. I have not yet attempted to hook up an
LCD to my Sun workstations.
We've purchased 3 Viewsonic LCD flat screens (2 15", 1 17") monitors and
have been very happy with them (they replaced the 15" and 21" Sun monitors
we were using).
I have SGI indy's and am using Viewsonic VG 175 and VE170 LCD models. So
much better than the old SGI monitors. There are a couple issues, however,
with getting the correct connector and it configured properly and there can
be an issue with the video board - 8 bit works fine but 24 bit does not. If
you need more info, I can fill in the gaps....
We have Samsung Syncmaster 770TFT 17"
works well. Cost about $900 at the time
although may be much cheaper now.
19" monitors would be nicer but the price differential
was way too much for us.
I'm looking at them too. Haven't got one yet, but there's a
good review at
http://www4.tomshardware.com/display/02q1/020114/
Short summary: They are better and cheaper than last year.
Look at response times (25-40ms) and # of neon tubes (if your
only one dies, you pitch the monitor).
Tecmag provides a Dell 17" LCD monitor as standard with our Discovery
solid-state and Odyssey MRI consoles. Optional Tecmag has provided 18" and
21" (very expensive!!!) LCD monitors. At several customer sites that have
high field or large bore magnets, a CRT would not be usable
When we purchased our new spectrometers in 2000, we also purchased Sun's
18" color flat panel displays. We have been very pleased with our
purchase. The displays are large enough to display even the most complex
2D spectra. There is no distortion of the colors in the magnetic field.
We do not know if LCD displays suffer from the same problems associated
with CRT pixel burn out. Nevertheless, we turn the displays off at night
as a preventive measure.
Highly recommended!! We have the 18" Sun (expensive!), and it is great. Not
quite as crisp as the SGI, which I've used in a couple locations (not
ours). Also have a NEC 15" for a PC we work data up on; at least as good as
any 17" CRT. And I have a 17" at home that is better than any 19" CRT I've
seen.
There is a discussion at Brian Livingston's editorial for 3 weeks about a
month ago on Infoworld (infoworld.com). [I cannot find them on the site, so
I've pasted them here. Sorry for the length, but I think they are relevant
enough to include them all.] Some people apparently do have problems with
their LCD's, and these articles discuss this in some detail. But for NMR
labs, I cannot see going without them in any location that shows the least
distortion from stray fields. Certainly the Sun and SGI screens are more
than ok, but they are very expensive. The cheaper brands do apparently have
some troubles.
We have been using a NEC Multisync LCD 1830 on an Inova 400 with a Sun
Blade 100 for a few months without problems.
We have been using NEC LCD 1810, Samsung SyncMaster 700, HP L1810, and Sony
M81 for some time. The 18 inch are better but more expensive than the
smaller displays. There have been no problems with any of the models. The
newer models have two inputs and so can be connected to two computers.
Absence of glare and curvature effects is an advantage.
The 15 inch models are now standard for all desktop computers at Roche
Bioscience.
We have 2 NEC Multisync LCD 1700M+ and a NEC Multisync LCD 1525S (no longer
in production) for our Bruker spectrometers equipped with SGI O2s. We also
use 2 NEC Multiync LCD 1810X for our O2 in office. We have not had any
problem with them. The 1700M+ is much cheaper than 1810X. All of them are
of 1280 x 1024 resolution. We tried one with 1024 x 800 resolution LCD
(also from NEC), it didn't work for us. For the spectrometers with SUN
Ultra-10 computers, we use 18" LCD monitors from SUN Microsystem.
We are using a NEC LA-1831 about 2 meters from a 360 wide-bore. Bought it
about 6/00 and after about 1 year, it died and was replaced under warranty.
Other than the one failure, it performs beautifully. LCDs are the way to
go. This was discussed on AMMRL some time ago but I don't remember when.
As far as I am concerned, LCD displays are the only type to be considered
in an NMR lab. All of the problems with stray fields and the need for
shielding just vanish - Especially for labs with non-shielded magnets.
The monitor for our Avance 300 sits at about the 5 Gauss line of
our AMX 500 magnet. We are using an SGI 1600 SW, which is
expensive, but very nice. This is a digital monitor that requires a
special board in the computer, but I think that third-party LCD monitors
should work just fine on the analog RGB output from the SGI.
My P.C. sits about 2.5 m from the unshielded Avance 300 magnet, and for
that I use an LG StudioWorks 570LS LCD display. This is called a 15" display,
but has almost the same viewable area as a 17" CRT and only costs about
$100 more. At 1024 x 768 it is a very confortable display to use and gives me
back a whole lot of desk space back! For 1280 x 1024, I think you need to
go to
the next larger size (18").
We are still using a CRT on the AMX500 as I haven't yet found a liquid
crystal display that will sync the wierd video output from the X32. Even with
multiple layers of mu metal shielding, I have a really ugly display. Has
anyone
found an LCD that will sync on the X32???
We have a Sun 18" LCD on one of our Inovas, very nice monitor, but a bit
pricey (around $2000 at the time). It can take two inputs (1 standard VGA
and 1 workstation style). The Inova workstation is located right at the
fringe of the 5 G line. Because the workstation is situated in a way that
prevents users from seeing the screen while tuning probes, we picked up a
second LCD (Samsung 17" 770TFT) to mirror the workstation display for
tuning purposes. This second monitor is located well inside the 5G line and
works great. The Samsung display is not quite as crisp as the Sun, but
works just fine. At the time we bought it it was maybe 65% the cost of the
Sun (about $1300), and also had a VGA input and a workstation style input.
We are anticipating installation of a new instrument soon, and for that
workstation we picked up another Samsung 770TFT (about $1000 at that point,
however this iteration of the monitor had done away with the workstation
style input.
I'm sure you can find this monitor, or similar sized monitors, now for well
under $1000
We have a Samsung 770TFT
(
http://www.samsungmonitor.com/html/products/770tft.htm) that we've been
using for ~9 months now. We paid just under $1000 but I think it can be had
for ~$800 now. It's great, everyone here really loves it. Nice, clean,
sharp image, no dead pixels, no hernias moving it around, etc. This is our
only one so far so I can't give any comparison(s). As other monitors die we
will definitely be replacing them with other LCDs.
We use LCDs on all the PCs running Windows and Linux
which are near the magnets. Been working fine for several years.
We used to buy 15" but now we but 17" for around $600. On
our Linux system operating the JEOL console we use dual
monitors because of the large amount of windows open
when running Delta.
Received on Wed Feb 20 2002 - 14:50:53 MST