Re: [AMMRL] 99.8% MeOD vs 80% Ethylene Glycol

From: Bernd Simon <simon_at_embl.de>
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2023 21:53:17 +0000

Hi,

the radiation damping does not depend on the flip angle. The general NMR assumption
that the resonance circuit is independent of the sample magnetization does not hold
for high Q and strong magnetization. So the frequency difference reporting the
temperature will be wrong for any detection.

Best regards,

     - Bernd -

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 14:31, Donghui Wu via groups.io wrote:
Hello Weixing,

If radiation damping is the problem, you might be able to get a spectrum without
its effect by using the shortest pulse width with lowest level of RF power possible,
i.e. a very very small flip angle. This will let you use the calibration sample you
already have (80% ethylene glycol) and the well established NMR temperature measurement
parameters.

Regards,

Donghui

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 1:03=E2=80=AFPM Zhang, Weixing via groups.io wrote:

 Dear All,

 Thanks to everyone who has read and replied to my email.

 We want to use a CryoProbe to run experiments at different temperatures up to 90 oC (363 K).
 Many people think that radiation damping of 80% ethylene glycol is the problem.
 Massively detuning the cryoprobe or using deuterated ethylene glycol should give more accurate results.
 Clemens told me that the Bruker part number of 99% ethylene glycol-d6 is Z10629.
 Z10629 is currently under development in Germany and it would be about a month for it to be completed.=20
 The Bruker AU program calctemp has these options.
 I am curious where Bruker got the equations from, and I would greatly appreciate any information.

 With warm regards,

 Weixing Zhang (Walter)
 Research Operation Manager
 Biomolecular NMR Spectroscopy Center
 St. Jude Children=E2=80=99s Research Hospital
 Memphis, TN 38105
 USA

> From: main_at_ammrl.groups.io (mailto:main_at_ammrl.groups.io) On Behalf Of Clemens Anklin via groups.io
> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 2:26 PM
> To: main_at_ammrl.groups.io (mailto:main_at_ammrl.groups.io)
> Subject: Re: [AMMRL] 99.8% MeOD vs 80% Ethylene Glycol
 
 Hi Weixing

if you do this on a cryoprobe this will be the expected result. 80% Glycol
gives a massive amount of radiation damping. This leads to different readings
as shown by Stefan Berger in https://doi.org/10.1002/mrc.1941

You can try to run a more accurate measurement by massively detuning the probe.

 With best regards

 Clemens
 On 8/18/2023 3:09 PM, Walter Zhang wrote:

 Dear All,

 I need to use 80% Ethylene Glycol for high temperature calibration.
 Before I do the calibration, I compared it with 99.8% MeOD at 303 K.
 When I set temperature to 303 K,=20
 99.8% MeOD gives 303.03 K while 80% Ethylene Glycol gives 300.57 K
 The difference between the two calibration samples is 2.46 K.
 Is this normal?
 Your comments are appreciated!
 Best regards,
 Weixing Zhang
 St. Jude Children=E2=80=99s Research Hospital
 Memphis, TN 38105
 USA

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Received on Tue Aug 22 2023 - 15:01:32 MST

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